268: TZ Interview – Dr. Doug McGuff / Body by Science

Justin and Jason speak with Dr. Doug McGuff about his book, Body by Science: A Research Based Program for Strength Training, Body building, and Complete Fitness in 12 Minutes a Week.

A special shoutout goes to Andy Chamberlain who emailed Justin with a heads up about Doug and the Body by Science protocol.

  1. David says:

    Hi guys,

    I love your show and listened to all of them since episode 1, but could you please go back to tech stuff?


  2. Jason says:

    @David – Yeah, we will.

  3. @David – Nooo, this is one of the best episodes ever! I have listened to them all too, and this was my first bootstrapping-related podcast, but hacking health, going into the science, geeking-out on Bayesian methods, drawing comparisons between medicine and comp. sci, … this is classic Techzing territory.

    Having said that, and on a tangent, @Jason & @Justin. Are you guys still happy with using a cross-platform solution for mobile apps? What are you guys currently using? Still Titanium for you Jason? And was it PhoneGap for you Justin?


  4. Jason says:

    @Andrew Cox – I’m glad you enjoyed the show! It kind of went down the rabbit hole, didn’t it? 😉

    I still like Titanium for cross platform, but you just have to not use the existing windowing system. I’ll explain why on the upcoming discussion show.

    Also, I’m currently building a mobile web app for managing Uber’s real-time infrastructure and so far I’ve been pretty successful in making it look and behave just like a native iPhone / Android app. I tried every major mobile HTML framework that I could find, but they all sucked for different reasons, so once again I built everything from scratch (sigh). 😉 This will be a major topic for the next show and I’ll really try to dig into the details.

  5. @Jason – Thanks for the update and I look forward to hearing what you have to say on this subject.

    Titanium seems to have “call us” pricing these days, which is a bit worrying. I am thinking of picking up some small app projects on the side to soften the transition out of doing one big on-site contract, so I’d like to know how their pricing works out for that use-case.

    Xamarin is looking increasingly good these days too. Good performance and a cross-platform UI.

  6. David says:

    Yeah well, I guess I’ve heard enough about the magic health programs, super foods and soylents. I don’t believe in those things at all, the expert being a doctor or no doctor 🙂
    Just cook your own meals from quality ingredients, add a nice salad, and enjoy it.
    Take a long walk with a good podcast to listen to (e.g. Techzing), get rid of the stress, be happy and get some coding done. That’s my way to a balanced lifestyle.

    I just liked the show more when you guys were working on AnyFu, and discussed your personal products and projects with all the day to day problems and how your families reacted. That was what I could relate to 🙂

    Oh yes before I forget: Justin and Georgie I hope you’re doing fine with the baby!

    And Jason, I would have expected you to be a lot more skeptical and critical in this interview given your initial opinion on this!

    Sorry for La Critique…

  7. Raul says:

    Just read the title of this episode and I’ve got super excited to hear it, taking into account the last episodes twist into health related stuff, and since I also read the Body By Science book some time ago. Now, gotta find 2+ hours of free time fast!!!

  8. Jason says:

    @Raul – Yeah, this was the longest interview we’ve ever done and that’s really saying something considering our track record. 😉 Doug was knowledgeable and opinionated about quite a few things, which I felt made for a particularly interesting discussion.

  9. Just Sayin' says:

    The link to download the mp3 isn’t working. It’s redirecting to some whacky soundcloud page, and that is a 404.

  10. Jon says:

    I kinda skimmed the interview myself, but I absolutely think letting the podcast go deep on whatever topics you guys are super into the correct move. The only downside for me is a few clicks on the podcast player to skip ahead. The absolutely huge upside is that when you DO hit upon a topic I am super into I get really great and long content.

    (I’d love to hear Justin go deep on the game design of his math card game for example, which I’m sure which drive other people batty.)

  11. Richard says:

    It’s a scam! Oh wait, Doug actually seems to know what he’s talking about. I’m interested to know whether you referred Doug to the previous discussion show (“The only thing you’re going to lose is money”) before doing the interview 🙂

    Lots of really interesting stuff in here, although it would have been easier to get into if the big tangent had come after discussion of the technique. I’d also like to hear more from Justin about how he’s finding the technique and the results so far.

    I really enjoyed the last interview on the Traction book as well, Gabe always has good stories and observations. Looking forward to the next discussion show.

  12. Al says:

    Hi Guys,

    Do you know your download link is broken for this episode?

  13. Justin says:

    @AL, @Just Sayin’: Looks like soundcloud broke something. If you want to get it from soundcloud direct go here:


  14. Jason says:

    @David – “And Jason, I would have expected you to be a lot more skeptical and critical in this interview given your initial opinion on this!”

    If I had come across as aggressive and antagonistic during the interview it would have only resulted in putting Doug on the defensive and made the conversation extremely uncomfortable to listen to, which is never good. I still asked him all of the questions that I wanted to ask him and I gave him the opportunity to explain his thinking, but that doesn’t mean I was necessarily persuaded.

    But also, I’ve found that you usually get better answers from people, especially from people you don’t know very well, when you’re polite and respectful. Now if I’m talking to a close friend like Justin, then sure, I can tell him that I think he’s full of it, but that’s only because it goes without saying that I like and respect him.

  15. Jason says:

    @Jon – “(I’d love to hear Justin go deep on the game design of his math card game for example, which I’m sure which drive other people batty.)”

    It’s actually my math card game, unless of course Justin is working on something similar that I’m unaware of. 😉

  16. Jason says:

    @Richard – “It’s a scam! Oh wait, Doug actually seems to know what he’s talking about. I’m interested to know whether you referred Doug to the previous discussion show (“The only thing you’re going to lose is money”) before doing the interview.”

    Okay, so I do regret calling it a scam because that’s just unfair, but I was kind of worked up when I said it and still do think that Justin is paying way too much for the service. Also, while I found Doug to be an extremely intelligent and thoughtful guy, the scientific research upon which he’s based his workout regime is pretty limited (as he admitted himself) and to some extent flies in the face of what I’ve seen that works and doesn’t work in the real world, so I remain skeptical about it’s efficacy beyond some limited scope. So, we’ll see. As I said in our initial discussion, I think Justin will experience “noob gains” for a few months, which is still something, but my guess is that they will fall off pretty quickly after that.

  17. Al says:

    @justin No problem, Just thought you guys should know, it also screwed up android podcast apps because the link does not lead to a podcast and gives users a weird error.

    Keep up the good work

  18. @Al, It worked as usual in Pocket Casts, a great paid Android podcast app.

    It lets you play at greater than real-time speed, and has other nice features like linking to a position in an episode (see below) when you share an interesting bit.

    Those guys are bootstrappers actually. They could make interesting interview episode guests. Clever tech doing the feed parsing once on a server, not tens of thousands of time on mobile devices. Also, the business side of making good money from Android apps.

    Sorry if this looks like spam. Their app generated it in an actual email I sent to a friend who is losing weight. I am not affiliated to them.

    Podcast: techzing tech podcast
    Episode: 268: TZ Interview – Dr. Doug McGuff / Body by Science
    Time: 1:41:17

    Here on aerobic exercise:

    Pocket Casts Team

    Don’t know what Pocket Casts is? http://www.pocketcasts.com

  19. Richard says:

    @Jason – agreed that you don’t get a thoughtful discussion by being confrontational. And you’re right that just because someone knows a great deal about a subject it doesn’t mean every idea they have is right, I would probably be too easily persuaded.

    This could be an interesting ongoing story if Justin wants to keep doing the programme, no pressure 🙂

  20. Ian says:

    Hi Guys, Long time Lurker… first time writer. Firstly Congrats to Justin and CO. on the baby!

    @Jason – Just a quick note to let you guys know that the podcast is un-downloadable / broken in iTunes. Maybe a bad or corrupt file?

    Love the show.


  21. David says:

    @Jason: well of course I didn’t expect you to be confrontational, but being critical is allowed at times, don’t you think? It might get the guest off his standard speech and be more ‘passionate’ in his answering.

    Anyway, I like the show very much, you haven’t lost me 🙂

  22. Jason says:

    @David – Well, I guess that’s just not an interviewing style I’m comfortable with. I’d much rather have a very neutral discussion where I ask the questions I need to ask to get the interviewee to explain their position and their thinking and then let the listeners make up their own minds. I think it presents more respect to both the interviewee and to the audience.

  23. Justin says:

    @all – I have a support request in to soundcloud to fix the download issue.

  24. Justin says:

    @all – The download file issue should now be resolved. Thanks!

  25. Who said there is not tech in this show 😉

    Black boxes, inputs, outputs, adaptation etc… Wife not letting husband put new equipment in the house 🙂

    All can be applied in TechZingers sphere.

    Just the fact that mentioned approach made Justin to go to the gym shows how useful idea is 😉
    “Gateway drug” sounds just right. There’s no reason this approach shouldn’t work in an app or service.

    Thanks guys, excellent show !

  26. Gazi Alankus says:

    Soundcloud issue continues for this and the next episode. The soundcloud link works only if you edit it to https, and only in firefox with that. Justin, if you have control over the URL, do you think you could add https:// to the soundcloud URL that you are redirecting to? I believe that will solve it.

    At the moment this and the last episodes are broken in my podcast client (pocketcasts in android).

  27. Gazi Alankus says:

    Hmm, well, it may be a CDN issue. FWIW, right now I can’t download from Turkey no matter what. VPN’ing through US works.

  28. Justin says:

    @Gazi Alankus – It is now returning https by default. Thanks for the heads up.